Hitchcock Interview with the President on the Peace Treaty
Title
Hitchcock Interview with the President on the Peace Treaty
Creator
Grayson, Cary T. (Cary Travers), 1878-1938
Identifier
WWP16083
Date
1919 November 17
Description
Notes by Dr. Cary T. Grayson describing an interview Senator Gilbert M. Hitchcock had with President Woodrow Wilson following the President’s stroke about the Treaty of Versailles.
Source
Cary T. Grayson Papers, Woodrow Wilson Presidential Library, Staunton, Virginia
Language
English
Text
(ADMIRAL GRAYSON)
HITCHCOCK interview with the President on the Peace Treaty
Senator Hitchcock called at the White House today at 10:30 for a conference with the President concerning the recent developments in the Senate in connection with the ratification of the Peace Treaty. The Senator had sent me a copy of the Lodge resolution, which I read to the President.
The Senator, after exchanging good-morning greetings with the President, asked him if he had read the Lodge resolution, and whether he had anything to suggest concerning ithem. The President immediately replied: “I consider it a nullification of the Treaty and utterly impossible.” He then drew an analogy between this and South Carolina’s threat to nullify the Constitution. Senator Hitchcock then called the President’s attention to the changes the Senate had made in Article X, to which the President replied: “That cuts the very heart out of the Treaty; I could not stand for those changes for a moment because it would humiliate the United States before all of the allied countries.” Senator Hitchcock said: “What would be the effect of the defeat of the Treaty by the Lodge resolution?” The President’s answer was: “The United States would suffer the contempt of the world. We will be playing into Germany’s hands. Think of the humiliation we would suffer in having to ask Germany whether she would accept such and such reservation!” The President said: “If the Republicans are bent on defeating the Treaty, I want the vote of each, Republican and Democrat, recorded, because they will have to answer to the country in the future for their acts. They must answer to the people. I am a sick man, lying in this bed, but I am going to debate this issue with these gentlemen in their respective states whenever they come up for re-election if I have breath enough in my body to carry on the fight. I shall do this even if I have to give my life to it. And I will get their political scalps when the truth is known to the people. They have got to account to their constituents for their actions in this matter. I have no doubts as to what the verdict of the people will be when they know the facts. Mind you, Senator, I have no hostility towards these gentlemen but an utter contempt.
”Senator Hitchcock favored certain compromises with the Republicans. The President said: “With the exception of interpretations, which would not alter the substance, I am not willing to make any compromise other than that we agreed upon at our meeting on.” The President’s position was that he would not oppose reservations which were merely interpretations of the Treaty, but that he was irreconcilably opposed to any alteration of the Treaty which would cause a recommitment to council with other nations.
The Senator told the President that he had had a conference with Lord Grey, the British Ambassador, and with Mr. Jusserand, the French Ambassador. They told the Senator that they considered - and relying on official advices from their own countries they knew that their respective countries considered - that Senator Lodge and the Republican party had killed the Peace Treaty and the League of Nations. They also commented on the fact that this view had been published in both English and French papers. They also expressed the belief that their countries would reject it a Treaty amended in accordance with the Lodge resolution.
The President interrogated Senator Hitchcock as to what had occurred in the Senate concerning the Treaty in the last month. He said: “I have been lying on my back and have been very weak, and it has fatigued me to read and to discuss matters in my mind, so to speak. I have been kept in the dark to a certain extent except twhat Mrs. Wilson and Doctor Grayson have told me, and they have purposely kept a good deal from me. I want you to tell me now just everything that has taken place, so I may pick up the threads that were left when I was put to bed.” These interrogations were at considerable length, the interview lasting one hour and five minutes. Whenever Senator Hitchcock would bring forth some argument why so and so was done, the President would combat him and ask to be advised why it was done and for what purpose. He said repeatedly: “Senator, I think you have acted very wisely and used good judgment in the circumstances, but why did you do so and so. I am not criticising you but I am asking you for information.”
At the conclusion of the interview the President said
As the interview was drawing to a close the President said: “If it is not too much trouble, will you please send me a little notice of what is transpiring during the day so that at your next visit I may be familiar with what has occurred and be prepared to discuss the situation with you.” The Senator replied that he would be very glad to comply with his request.
As the Senator arose to leave the room, he said: “Mr. President, I hope I have not weakened you by this long discussion.” And the President smilingly replied: “No, Senator, you have strengthened me against the opponents.”
After the Senator and I had left the room, the Senator turned to me and said: “The President is looking remarkably well. He has strengthened so much more physically and mentally since I saw him last. He is very combative today as he sits up there in that bed. On certain compromises he is as immovable as the Rock of Gibraltar.” The Senator also said to me: “I would give anything if the Democrats, in fact, all the Senate, could see the attitude that man took this morning. Think how effective it would be if they could see the picture as you and I saw it this morning!”
During the interview the President, in commenting to Senator Hitchcock concerning Senator Hoke Smith, said: “Don’t bother about him. That is his usual attitude. He is always wrong in debate but he votes right. You need not pay any attention to him.”----
HITCHCOCK interview with the President on the Peace Treaty
Senator Hitchcock called at the White House today at 10:30 for a conference with the President concerning the recent developments in the Senate in connection with the ratification of the Peace Treaty. The Senator had sent me a copy of the Lodge resolution, which I read to the President.
The Senator, after exchanging good-morning greetings with the President, asked him if he had read the Lodge resolution, and whether he had anything to suggest concerning ithem. The President immediately replied: “I consider it a nullification of the Treaty and utterly impossible.” He then drew an analogy between this and South Carolina’s threat to nullify the Constitution. Senator Hitchcock then called the President’s attention to the changes the Senate had made in Article X, to which the President replied: “That cuts the very heart out of the Treaty; I could not stand for those changes for a moment because it would humiliate the United States before all of the allied countries.” Senator Hitchcock said: “What would be the effect of the defeat of the Treaty by the Lodge resolution?” The President’s answer was: “The United States would suffer the contempt of the world. We will be playing into Germany’s hands. Think of the humiliation we would suffer in having to ask Germany whether she would accept such and such reservation!” The President said: “If the Republicans are bent on defeating the Treaty, I want the vote of each, Republican and Democrat, recorded, because they will have to answer to the country in the future for their acts. They must answer to the people. I am a sick man, lying in this bed, but I am going to debate this issue with these gentlemen in their respective states whenever they come up for re-election if I have breath enough in my body to carry on the fight. I shall do this even if I have to give my life to it. And I will get their political scalps when the truth is known to the people. They have got to account to their constituents for their actions in this matter. I have no doubts as to what the verdict of the people will be when they know the facts. Mind you, Senator, I have no hostility towards these gentlemen but an utter contempt.
”Senator Hitchcock favored certain compromises with the Republicans. The President said: “With the exception of interpretations, which would not alter the substance, I am not willing to make any compromise other than that we agreed upon at our meeting on.” The President’s position was that he would not oppose reservations which were merely interpretations of the Treaty, but that he was irreconcilably opposed to any alteration of the Treaty which would cause a recommitment to council with other nations.
The Senator told the President that he had had a conference with Lord Grey, the British Ambassador, and with Mr. Jusserand, the French Ambassador. They told the Senator that they considered - and relying on official advices from their own countries they knew that their respective countries considered - that Senator Lodge and the Republican party had killed the Peace Treaty and the League of Nations. They also commented on the fact that this view had been published in both English and French papers. They also expressed the belief that their countries would reject it a Treaty amended in accordance with the Lodge resolution.
The President interrogated Senator Hitchcock as to what had occurred in the Senate concerning the Treaty in the last month. He said: “I have been lying on my back and have been very weak, and it has fatigued me to read and to discuss matters in my mind, so to speak. I have been kept in the dark to a certain extent except twhat Mrs. Wilson and Doctor Grayson have told me, and they have purposely kept a good deal from me. I want you to tell me now just everything that has taken place, so I may pick up the threads that were left when I was put to bed.” These interrogations were at considerable length, the interview lasting one hour and five minutes. Whenever Senator Hitchcock would bring forth some argument why so and so was done, the President would combat him and ask to be advised why it was done and for what purpose. He said repeatedly: “Senator, I think you have acted very wisely and used good judgment in the circumstances, but why did you do so and so. I am not criticising you but I am asking you for information.”
At the conclusion of the interview the President said
As the interview was drawing to a close the President said: “If it is not too much trouble, will you please send me a little notice of what is transpiring during the day so that at your next visit I may be familiar with what has occurred and be prepared to discuss the situation with you.” The Senator replied that he would be very glad to comply with his request.
As the Senator arose to leave the room, he said: “Mr. President, I hope I have not weakened you by this long discussion.” And the President smilingly replied: “No, Senator, you have strengthened me against the opponents.”
After the Senator and I had left the room, the Senator turned to me and said: “The President is looking remarkably well. He has strengthened so much more physically and mentally since I saw him last. He is very combative today as he sits up there in that bed. On certain compromises he is as immovable as the Rock of Gibraltar.” The Senator also said to me: “I would give anything if the Democrats, in fact, all the Senate, could see the attitude that man took this morning. Think how effective it would be if they could see the picture as you and I saw it this morning!”
During the interview the President, in commenting to Senator Hitchcock concerning Senator Hoke Smith, said: “Don’t bother about him. That is his usual attitude. He is always wrong in debate but he votes right. You need not pay any attention to him.”----
Files
Collection
Citation
Grayson, Cary T. (Cary Travers), 1878-1938, “Hitchcock Interview with the President on the Peace Treaty,” 1919 November 17, WWP16083, Cary T. Grayson Papers, Woodrow Wilson Presidential Library & Museum, Staunton, Virginia.